Source: Australian Attorney General’s Agencies
Andrew Clennell: Well, joining me live is the Trade Minister, Don Farrell. Don Farrell, thanks for your time. And I wanted to start by talking about this issue of critical minerals and some of the moves the government has made to keep smelters going, even if they are owned by large multinationals with plenty of cash. Now, it’s my understanding you’re telling the American, or the government’s telling the American administration about this, and I assume they’re happy with the progress in trying to lift critical mineral processing in this country.
Minister for Trade: Yeah. Look, nice to be with you again, Andrew. Australia once again is the lucky country. We’ve got vast resources of the critical minerals that the world is going to need to decarbonise, to build data centres, to process AI and all of the things that critical minerals are going to be crucial in. What we don’t always have, of course, is the financial resources to extract those minerals. And so, what the Australian government has been trying to do in recent years is to ensure that we’ve got partners with us to extract those minerals. And we’ve been talking to the Europeans. The European Trade Minister is going to be in Australia in a few weeks’ time for further discussions. We are talking with the Japanese, the Koreans and of course we’re talking with the Americans. So, we see wonderful opportunities. In fact, I’ve often described it as a golden age for critical minerals. A few weeks ago, I was with the Premier of South Australia at Roxby Downs. We were a kilometre underground and we announced the doubling of Olympic Dam’s copper mining, processing. Currently they produce about 300,000 tonnes per year. That’s going to double over the next few years to 600,000 tonnes. So, we’re very focused on critical minerals and we want to ensure that we become a reliable supplier of critical minerals to the rest of the world.
Andrew Clennell: Including, and especially to the US. That’s what these grants are about, aren’t they?
Minister for Trade: Look, it’s all about making sure that Australia, we’re lucky to have all of these critical minerals, but we’ve got to be able to extract them. It’s not just about the US, Andrew. It’s all about making sure that we become a reliable supplier to the rest of the world. We learnt two parliaments ago just how dangerous it is to put all your eggs in the one basket. We want to ensure that we can supply these products, these minerals to the rest of the world. And that will be the focus of the government over the near future.
Andrew Clennell: Well, the Nine newspapers have a report this morning about a proposal for a $1.2 billion strategic reserve for critical minerals and a price floor and that that’s been consulted with the mining industry ahead of this White House meeting of Mr Albanese. Can you confirm that report? Can you confirm that proposal is being looked at?
Minister for Trade: Look, we—we are having discussions all of the time. There wouldn’t be a week that goes by where we don’t have some discussions with either miners – as I said, I was at Roxby Downs just, just two weeks ago where we were talking very much about the issue of critical minerals. We’re an action government, Andrew, and we like to do things and we like to create wealth for Australian companies and Australian workers. So, the world needs the critical minerals that Australia is lucky enough to have. And so, all of our focus has been on ensuring, firstly, that we can extract these minerals and secondly, that we can find buyers for them. There’s a bit of a difference between, say, an iron ore mine and a critical mineral mine. Iron ore—if you go up to the Pilbara, you can see iron ore as far as the eye can see. Critical minerals are a bit different. They’re in much smaller, much smaller groups and they’re much deeper down, and so they’re more expensive to extract than, say, iron ore. So, we’re going to need investments from right around the world to ensure that we are able to extract these minerals, to process them and sell them to the rest of the world.
Andrew Clennell: How would a strategic reserve work?
Minister for Trade: Look, I’ll leave that to the Resources Minister. We’ve got an excellent Resources Minister in Madeleine King. That’s her space, and I’m not going to step into her space. But can I say, we value our ability to sell these products to the rest of the world and that’s what we’re going to do.
Andrew Clennell: You seem really at pains to ensure that you’re not tying this to the US relationship, but I feel like, Don Farrell, you’re doing a bit of a dance here. You don’t want to annoy the Chinese government too much. Is that what’s happening here? Why can’t you just be up front and say, look, this is going to be a critical part of the Albanese-Trump meeting, some sort of critical minerals agreement, potentially?
Minister for Trade: Look, I’m being very upfront, as I always am with you, Andrew. I’m always very upfront with you. And what I’m trying to explain to you is that Australia doesn’t just want to have one customer for its critical minerals. We’ve seen in the past what happens when you put all of your eggs in the one basket and it’s not about upsetting China either. We’ve got these vast mineral resources. What we don’t always have is the capital to extract these minerals. What we need is partners in that process. And we’re having—as I said, a couple of weeks’ time—we’ve got the Europeans out here, they’re interested in our critical minerals, the Japanese, the South Koreans and the Americans. And so we need to have a broad range of customers, firstly to provide us with the capital to extract the products, but secondly, to ensure that we’ve got guaranteed markets to sell these critical minerals.
Andrew Clennell: Let me ask you very sort of in black and white terms here: is there a proposal for a critical minerals agreement between Australia and the US still on the table potentially for signing off at this White House meeting?
Minister for Trade: Look, we’ve been discussing the issue of critical minerals from, I think, the day Donald Trump became President of the United States. There’s no secrets about that, Andrew. We’ve been very public that, you know, we would like to have an agreement on critical minerals as we’ve got with the Europeans, with the United States. There’s no secrets about that. Just when that agreement might be reached, I’m, you know, not going to predict those things. These things always take a lot longer to do than you’d like them to do. But I’m sure that one of these days we will reach an agreement with the United States as we’ve done with the Europeans.
Andrew Clennell: One of these days. Next Monday. Next Monday, Don Farrell, perhaps, US time. Just putting it out there.
Minister for Trade: We’ll see. We’ll see.
Andrew Clennell: Okay, what do you make of the spat that’s broken out – then between
Minister for Trade: – you’re always very good, always very good at –
Andrew Clennell: at predicting?
Minister for Trade: Sorry
Andrew Clennell: Were you about to say I’m good at predicting? That’s what the crystal ball—
Minister for Trade: I’m just saying. Yeah, yeah, you’re always—I always like your predictions, Andrew, because they always come true. Almost.
Andrew Clennell: Oh, well, almost always, but I’m glad you put almost in there. Now, what do you make of this spat that’s broken out between President Trump and President Xi over these export controls President Xi is saying he’s going to introduce in November?
Minister for Trade: Yeah, yeah. Look, our view all the way along the line has been that we support free and fair trade and it’s not just from us to China or us to the United States. We see great, great value in stability and the rules-based system of international trade. So, to the extent that we can influence events and participate in events, what we would like to see is stability and adherence to the rules-based international trading system. And next year, we’ve got another meeting of the World Trade Organisation in Africa. We’ll be advocating very strongly for the reform of the World Trade Organisation, but most importantly for the continuation of a rules-based free trade, free and fair trade system.
Andrew Clennell: Could we face retaliatory action, trade action from China, if we team with the US on critical minerals? Is there any fears for you as Trade Minister in relation to that?
Minister for Trade: Look, we have to make decisions in our national interest, Andrew. And what’s in our national interest is making sure that we can extract and sell these critical minerals to the rest of the world. All the decisions that the Albanese government will be making in the future about the sale of our critical minerals will be based on that simple principle. What is in our national interest? If it’s in our national interest to sell these products to a particular country, then that’s exactly what we’ll be doing.
Andrew Clennell: And I presume the calculation is it’s not in the national interest for China to tie up 95% of these.
Minister for Trade: Well, look, it’s important, I think for the rest of the world that there be alternative sources of these products. And Australia, as I’ve said, is the lucky country. We’ve got, I’ve heard the Prime Minister say this on a number of occasions, we’ve got virtually every item on the periodic table. What we don’t always have is the resources to extract them. We’re looking for partners to do that and we are going to be—I mean, one of the things Australia is really good at is extracting minerals. We’ve got one of the best mining industries in the world. What we want to be able to do is to supply to the rest of the world in a reliable way. I mean, we’ve always been a reliable supplier of products and that’s what we want to be to the rest of the world into the future.
Andrew Clennell: I want to move on now. Donald Trump’s efforts in the Middle East, does he deserve a Nobel Peace Prize? And there’s been criticism of Penny Wong and Anthony Albanese for claiming some sort of role in engineering peace. Are their claims fair?
Minister for Trade: Look, the Australian government has, from the time that this conflict started, have been advocating for a peaceful resolution. And of course, we were delighted last week to see that that has been achieved. And all credit to President Trump for the way in which he was able to insert himself into this process and get a peaceful outcome. We have all along advocated for the return of the hostages, greater humanitarian aid into Gaza and a peaceful resolution. We’re a middle power in this process. But we have certainly contributed, I think, to the resolution of this issue by the careful and considered way that the Prime Minister and the Foreign Minister have expressed Australia’s views on these issues.
Andrew Clennell: Do you think there’d be potential for Australian peacekeepers in Gaza?
Minister for Trade: Oh, look, I don’t know whether that will be requested. I’m not aware of any request along those lines and I think we just wait and see what unfolds in the days and the weeks ahead. I think the important thing here is that a peace agreement has been achieved and that it holds into the future and there can be a resolution to the ongoing disputes in the Middle East.
Andrew Clennell: I wanted to ask about your role as Special Minister of State as well. And you’ve kicked two proposals off to a committee. One involves actually having more MPs in the parliament, another for four year terms or fixed terms. First of all, why on earth do we need more politicians? Aren’t there enough of you?
Minister for Trade: Well, that’s why I’ve issued the instruction to the committee to give some consideration to this. Since Federation—so 125 years ago—the Parliament has only been increased twice. The last time that the Parliament was increased was in the mid-1980s under Bob Hawke. At that time the population of Australia was 16 million. By the time of the next election the population will almost have doubled, will be about 29 million people. And so all I’ve said is it’s worth having consideration as to whether now is the time to look at increasing the representation in the Federal Parliament. We’re not saying it has to be done, we’re simply saying look, after each election we consider all of the issues that occurred during the last election and one of them is the question about whether or not we should increase the number of parliamentarians.
Andrew Clennell: And the four year term –
Minister for Trade: Obviously the bigger the – sorry-
Andrew Clennell: Go on.
Minister for Trade: Yeah, look, people, you know, the constituents expect their parliamentarians to represent them. The more people in an electorate, of course, the more work that needs to be done. All we’re saying is let’s have a look at the issue and see whether or not it’s worth considering.
Andrew Clennell: Alright, the four year term. Briefly, the four year term idea or fixed terms. Would fixed terms require a referendum like four year terms do? And we know how well referendums go.
Minister for Trade: Yes. They don’t go too well though, do they Andrew? No, it would require a referendum and again that’s obviously a difficult barrier to overcome. What I find in this job, you’re no sooner in the job trying to do some things but then you’re back, you know, you’re back at an election. So again it’s an issue worth considering. All of the state governments now have four year terms, so the states have managed to achieve this. They don’t have the same constitutional requirements that the Federal Government does, but again it’s an issue worth having consideration of.
Andrew Clennell: Just finally, on the matter of ISIS brides, could the government have been more upfront about the fact you knew these individuals were coming back to Australia, and are there more applying to come back?
Minister for Trade: Look, as to your second question, I don’t know the answer to that Andrew. But no, look, I think we’ve been up front. The government hasn’t been assisting these people to return to Australia. So if they’ve managed to return to Australia, it’s been under their own steam.
Andrew Clennell: Although I guess we granted them passports. You might argue there wasn’t a choice. Don Farrell, thanks very much for your time.
Minister for Trade: Nice talking with you Andrew.