Source: Murray Darling Basin Authority
PATRICIA KARVELAS: More concerns have been raised about safety at child care centres, with three-quarters of workers telling a survey their place of work has been operating below minimum staffing levels at least weekly. Now, the findings come after the charging of a Melbourne childcare worker with more than 70 offences, including sexual assault, last week. Senator Jess Walsh is the Minister for Youth and Early Childhood Development, and she joins us. Welcome.
JESS WALSH, MINISTER FOR EARLY CHILDHOOD EDUCATION: Hi, PK.
KARVELAS: So, great to have you in the studio. Are Australian children safe today in child care centres?
WALSH: Well, this has been such a distressing time for families, for parents of children in early learning. For parents who are going through having to get their children tested in Melbourne right now, this is just absolutely devastating. I was at an early learning centre this morning, and I met with educators there, and they did want to remind me that the vast majority of children in early learning are safe, but we need to make sure that every child is safe in early learning, and parents have the confidence that they are.
KARVELAS: And that’s the thing, right? The vast majority. We need it to be all children. And we’re not there yet, are we?
WALSH: We’re not there, PK. I think this week has really shown that, and it’s been just devastating to see. There is more work to do, and I’m really passionate about doing that work. Before I came into the Parliament, I represented the early educators who do such amazing work around the country. I want to make sure that we have a safe, quality early learning sector, and it’s really important to achieve that, that we deal with those providers who are currently putting profit ahead of child safety.
KARVELAS: So, the model itself is the problem, do you think, then? Because the for-profit sector has been criticised for putting profit ahead. Does the system incentivise that?
WALSH: Well PK, I want to assure those parents who have their children in for-profit settings that, again, the vast majority meet and exceed quality standards. Educators who work in some of those services tell me they’re really proud of the quality of early education that they’re delivering. But there is no doubt that there is a minority of providers who are doing the wrong thing. They are putting profit ahead of child safety. There is no doubt about that. And that’s why we’re bringing legislation to the first sitting of Parliament to make sure that in those circumstances, we can withdraw Commonwealth funding from those providers.
KARVELAS: Okay, but if you are working towards the standards, will you still keep your funding?
WALSH: So, what we’re really concerned about is this small minority of providers who are doing the wrong thing, who are prioritising profit over children and who should not be in the early learning sector. That’s what we’re concerned about. That’s what this legislation is targeted to. We have a big lever in the Commonwealth. We fund child care services through the Child Care Subsidy. We are saying that if providers persistently do the wrong thing, if they put profit ahead of safety, we will withdraw your funding because there is no place for providers like that in this sector.
KARVELAS: So, would it be a sort of three strikes and you’re out model? I’m just wondering, because you could not be meeting standards and still be told, well it’s not persistent yet. What is going to be legally considered to be persistent behaviour for you to lose your funding?
WALSH: So, the legislation will be before the Parliament in the first sitting, because this is a big priority for us, and the mechanisms that we use will be laid out in the legislation. Again, there are services who are not meeting the quality standards, but who are on a path to do that. And it’s important in those cases that we work with those services and those providers to make sure that they’re doing everything that they can to provide quality early learning. We’re not as worried about them. It’s not good enough. They should be at the quality standard, but we’re not as worried about them. We’re worried about those providers who persistently breach. We’re worried about those providers who consistently put profit ahead of child safety. There is no place for them in our early learning system, because it’s important to really remember, PK, what the benefits of early learning are. Safe quality early learning is an absolute game changer for children, and I want to see children get the best start in life with safe, quality early education delivered by providers who are there for the right reasons, who are putting children first.
KARVELAS: So, on my question about whether it’s three strikes or something like that, is that still being deliberated over about what’s going to make it into the legislation?
WALSH: The legislation is very advanced –
KARVELAS: So you would know that then –
WALSH: It’s ready to be –
KARVELAS: So, could you share with me what that persistent definition would be?
WALSH: It’s ready to be introduced into the Parliament. We are still discussing it with people. You know, we’re wanting to brief the Coalition about it. We’re really pleased that they have decided to take a bipartisan approach on this. We want to make sure the legislation is well supported. Again, it is targeted to those providers who persistently breach. It’s targeted to those providers that no one wants to see operating in this absolutely critical sector with vulnerable children, but also with the opportunity to do so much good. This is a sector that can do and should do so much good for Australian children.
KARVELAS: Good, and many of us have used this sector and know it well, which is why this is such a sort of emotional story for so many of us who have used these centres. Look at these spot checks that Jason Clare mentioned last week. He talked about them in terms of being for fraud. Are they going to be for safety or for fraud, or for both?
WALSH: That’s a really good question. This is an important new Commonwealth power. The Commonwealth wants and needs the ability to go into services unannounced and check for compliance. It is about compliance issues, as you say, that are more related to fraud. But one of the things that we’re doing at our next Education Ministers meeting, coming up soon, is talking about how we can really join up all of the things that we know about providers and raise flags as to where more work is needed. So, if you’re a provider and you’re doing something dodgy around CCS, Child Care Subsidy, chances are you’re probably not up to scratch when it comes to serving children and providing quality early education and safe early education.
KARVELAS: So, you think even though they’re there for fraud, they’ll be able to raise the alarm on the other issues?
WALSH: That’s right. I mean, the fraud is really important.
KARVELAS: I’m not saying it’s not, but obviously this particular arrest and the stories around it are about, you know, alleged sexual abuse. They are a specific and, you know, really vile type of violence that people want addressed.
WALSH: Absolutely. And we want a joined-up system that raises flags when they need to be raised. And so, one of the things that I’ve been working on is making sure at the next Education Ministers meeting that we can really progress some of the reform that’s been in the pipeline and come out with a strong, united plan. I’m really pleased to say that the States and Territories and the Commonwealth are working really hard together, as parents should expect that we are. One of the reforms that I want to see come out of that is a register of early childhood educators. So, around the country, where flags are raised, regulators can share that information and take strong action. And again, that is because every child deserves to be safe in early learning, and parents deserve to have the confidence that they are safe – at a minimum. Because what we really want to see is every child get the benefit of great early learning.
KARVELAS: Just a couple of questions I have still. There is a Productivity Commission recommendation for basically an independent national regulator-style body. Do you support that idea?
WALSH: So, an independent commission, a national commission, could be part of the future. We think right now what we need to do is make sure that the Commonwealth introduces these new powers to make sure that we can deal with those providers who are out there, who I think parents are sick of hearing about right now, and make sure that there is no place for them in the system. And PK, we want to make sure that States and Territories are working with us. That will get to the next Education Ministers meeting with a strong plan going forward, and I’m really confident that we will. I think the time is for urgent action on this, and that is what we are taking. A commission could be part of the longer-term future.
KARVELAS: Ok. And just finally, we’ve seen some reports of a couple of different centres who have said, for instance, they won’t let the men that work in the service change nappies. Do you think that’s a wise approach?
WALSH: Oh, look, I think in early learning as a whole, you know, we do want to see men who can role model to children. It’s really important that we have men who are caring, men who are warm, men who can show children a different way of being male. That is important. I understand where these calls are coming from, that they’re coming from a really raw place, and they’re coming from a place of distress. But I think in early learning, what we need is a quality early learning sector. The vast majority of educators are so devastated by this. They just want to do a good job of making sure children are safe and that they get a great quality early education.
KARVELAS: Minister, thanks so much for coming in.
WALSH: Thank you.