Source: Australia Government Statements 2
Melissa Clarke, Host: The Federal Government has announced a suite of reforms to clamp down on antisemitism in the wake of the deadly Bondi terror attack. Prime Minister Anthony Albanese says the government also adopts and fully supports recommendations in the report by the envoy for combating antisemitism, Jillian Segal, which is handed down to government earlier this year. Matt Thistlethwaite is the Assistant Minister for Immigration and Foreign Affairs and Trade and he joins me now. Matt Thistlethwaite, welcome back to Radio National Breakfast.
Matt Thistlethwaite, Assistant Minister for Immigration: Good morning, Mel.
Clarke: Matt, you’ve been taking part in the paddle out at Bondi Beach this morning with many others on the shore there. Can you give me your sense of how the community is feeling at the end of this week?
Assistant Minister: Well, the community’s pretty bruised and grieving and there’s been a lot of emotions in the local community. I’ve spent most of the last few days at Bondi or around there trying to support the local Jewish community as much as I can. Yesterday I attended the funeral of young Matilda, who was a student at one of the public schools in my electorate. I’ve been at the public school to console the staff and students. We had Peter Meagher, a very well-respected member of the Randwick Rugby Club that lost his life. They had a vigil at Coogee Oval on Monday that I attended. And today I’ll attend the funeral of Boris and Sofia Gurman, who showed great bravery and courage on the day. So, our community is coming together. We’re wrapping our arms around the Jewish community and we’re providing them with as much support as we possibly can.
Clarke: You’re offering that kind of support. You’re also the Assistant Minister for Immigration, so involved in the efforts the government is putting forward as a response to these attacks to look at what initiatives can be taken to try to kerb antisemitism. Part of what’s been flagged has been greater powers to cancel or reject visas for people who spread hate and division. Home Affairs Minister Tony Burke has referred to this as making it much easier to cancel visas. Can you explain how this would change the way things currently work? Because we’ve heard Tony Burke talk about his high level of rejecting and cancelling visas under the current regime. So, what would be different under what’s been flagged here?
Assistant Minister: Well, we’ll strengthen the power for the Minister to cancel a visa for a person who’s been involved in preaching hate and division. We’ve already used that power on several occasions. I’ve personally denied people a visa to come to Australia where they’ve publicly espoused antisemitic views. I’ve been involved in cancelling the visas of people who are already in Australia because they’ve been involved in antisemitic activities.
Clarke: So, when you say, when you say this is to make it easier, can you explain what a change to a threshold that will be used? Can you just set that out for me?
Assistant Minister: Yeah, yeah. Section 501 of the Migration Act allows the Minister to cancel a person’s visa in certain circumstances, and that involves being involved in criminal conduct in Australia, harassing, intimidating, stalking another person in Australia or vilifying a segment of the Australian community. So, we’ll look to how we can increase that power and provide other categories that will allow the Minister to cancel a visa, specifically where someone’s been involved in preaching hate and division. So, that will allow a lower threshold, if you like, for the Minister to cancel a visa if someone espouses antisemitic views whilst they’re in Australia.
Clarke: So, that would have to be something that’s a lower threshold than, I guess vilify is probably the lowest in that existing list, but it’s not clear exactly what terminology you would draught at this point?
Assistant Minister: Yeah, that’s correct. We’ll work with the parliamentary draftspeople to ensure that we strike the right balance. And obviously we need to consult with not only members of the Jewish community, but other communities throughout the country to make sure that we’re reflecting community sentiment and that we get the balance right. But it will mean that we’ve got additional powers to cancel visas in circumstances where people are preaching hate.
Clarke: The Government’s also proposing new Commonwealth offences of aggravated hate speech and serious vilification based on race or racial supremacy. Would the government extend that protection against hate speech and vilification to other minority groups as well?
Assistant Minister: Yes, this will apply across the board to all Australians and people that are living here. The aggravated factor will be a sentencing issue. So, there’ll be aggravated factors taken into consideration in sentencing for crimes, particularly online threats and harassment. We’ve seen, unfortunately, in Australia, and indeed throughout the world, a number of people using online platforms and other tools to harass and threaten others, and indeed to incite violence. So, that will become an aggravated factor and we’ll also increase the penalties for aggravated hate speech offences. And that will include for preachers and leaders who promote violence as well.
Clarke: Against racial minorities or, more broadly than that, other minority groups?
Assistant Minister: Racial minorities will be one of the factors, and we’ll look to consult with different groups about whether or not there should be other factors included. But obviously this is in response to the preaching of antisemitic views that we’ve had in the community. And of course, the actions that occurred at Bondi Beach on the weekend and the consultations that we’ve had with the Jewish community. But obviously it will apply to other forms of hate speech as well.
Clarke: You’re listening to Radio National Breakfast and my guest is the Assistant Minister for Immigration, Matt Thistlethwaite. On the program yesterday, we spoke to former ASIO Director-General Dennis Richardson, who said the issue when it comes to clamping down on hate speech may not necessarily be the strength of the law, but an unwillingness to prosecute cases. Has the Office of Public Prosecutions been too cautious in pursuing people who may have contravened this law?
Assistant Minister: Well, I think there’s two factors. Firstly, we need to know. You need to have the information and the intelligence to know that someone’s been involved in those activities. So, ensuring that our police, our security intelligence agencies, have the resources they need to discover people who have been undertaking these views is a factor. And obviously ASIO has the largest budget that it’s ever had to ensure that it can undertake these activities. But then ensuring that people can be prosecuted is really, really important and this will lower the threshold. These actions that we are taking will ensure that we have the strongest laws that the country has ever had to combat antisemitism and the preaching of hate speech in our community. So, there’ll be no excuses in the future and we’re providing our police, security and intelligence organisations with the tools to prosecute people if they undertake these activities.
Clarke: And just briefly, the Opposition’s put forward their own proposals to combat antisemitism, including giving the Minister for Immigration a stronger and broader pathways to strip citizenship from dual citizens who’ve been engaged in any kind of conduct related to military style training or committing hate crimes. Is that something the Government would consider?
Assistant Minister: Look, stripping people of citizenship is a very difficult issue and involves a constitutional issue as well. And leaving a person stateless is very difficult. What we have done is consulted with the Jewish community, with the leadership of that community, and responded to their requests. And in doing so, we’re fully supporting and adopting the recommendations of the Segal report. We’re going further and strengthening some of our laws, particularly those around migration. And importantly, there’s a number of educational reforms that we’re undertaking as well as so that we’re educating the wider community about how to identify antisemitism and how to say no, it’s not acceptable and to call it out and to report it where it occurs in any form.
Clarke: Matt Thistlethwaite, thank you very much for joining me on Radio National Breakfast this morning.
Assistant Minister: Thanks for having me, Mel.