Source: Murray Darling Basin Authority
KENNY HEATLEY: Joining me live is Education Minister Jason Clare. Really appreciate your time, Minister. Thanks so much. Wow, tough week.
JASON CLARE, MINISTER FOR EDUCATION: Thanks, mate.
HEATLEY: Take us through the Commonwealth ‘Kindy Cops’, so it’s been called in the media today, and the unannounced spot checks on daycare centres. What powers exactly will they have?
CLARE: This is just one of the things that we’re doing. The bottom line, I’ve been pretty blunt this week, is that whilst action is being taken here to keep our kids safe in our early education and care centres, not enough has been done and not fast enough.
One of the things we will do is introduce legislation in the first sitting fortnight when Parliament comes back, which is about pulling the funding of child care centres that aren’t up to scratch, that are persistently failing in meeting the safety and quality standards that we as a country expect of them. One of the big weapons that the Commonwealth has, probably the biggest, is the funding that we provide to child care centres. Something like $16 billion dollars a year. Centres run based on that funding, if they don’t get it, they can’t operate. And what I’m saying is, if they’re not meeting those standards that we expect, then we should have the power to pull that funding off them. So, the bill will do that. The bill will also make sure that centres that aren’t meeting those minimum standards can’t expand and open another centre. But there’s another thing that the bill will do as well, and that gives the sort of people who work in my department, who investigate fraud in child care centres the ability to do spot checks, unannounced visits. They won’t need a warrant, they won’t need the police to come with them when they’re investigating fraud in child care centres. And the fact is, this happens. I’ve invested an extra $200 million dollars into the investigation of child care fraud over the last few years, and it’s clawed back about $300 million for taxpayers. It can involve a child care centre that claims that they might have a child there three days a week. The fact is, they’re only there two days a week, but they’re claiming three days a week. This will give powers to my department and my investigators to go in and check if the child is actually there. It’s just one of the things that we do to improve the integrity of this system, as well as the things we need to do to improve safety for children.
HEATLEY: So, how many of these inspectors do you see coming on board and doing these checks across the country, and I guess, how much will it cost? You know, that sort of thing? Have we gotten that far yet?
CLARE: I’ve got about 150 people who work in the investigative team in the department, but there are also investigators in the state-based regulators who can support our work as well. As I said, it costs money, but ultimately it saves the taxpayer money. The investment of about an extra $200 million dollars over the last few years has clawed back more than that in money we’ve saved from the fraud investigations we do.
HEATLEY: Is the Government considering implementing real-time updates on working with children checks based on criminal records? And how difficult is that, considering that pretty much every state and territory has different standards?
CLARE: It is difficult, but people aren’t interested in excuses; they want action. And this is one of the things that the Attorney-General, Michelle Rowland, spoke about the other day. Attorneys-General are going to meet next month and look at the steps that must be taken to improve criminal record checks and the criminal record check system. Part of it is about information sharing across borders, part of it is about making sure that it’s updated in near real-time. I caution that none of this is a silver bullet here. I’m not going to comment specifically on the case in Victoria because it will be before the court, but in other examples we’ve found people who’ve been convicted of assaulting children in child care centres where they had a criminal record check. Why? Because they didn’t have a criminal record and so they got through the system. The truth is here, there’s no silver bullet. There’s a whole bunch of things that we need to do, and this work will never end. There are always going to be more things that we need to do here because there’s always going to be people who are going to try and break through the net to try to do the dastardly things that we’ve seen other people do.
HEATLEY: Goodstart is going to install CCTV in all of its centres, hundreds of them. Will you make it mandatory in daycare centres?
CLARE: This is one of the things that Education Ministers, Early Education Ministers are going to talk about when we meet next month as well. It was a recommendation out of an independent review that New South Wales did and that it was released last week. One of the things that having a CCTV camera in a child care centre can do is if there’s somebody that’s potentially up to no good, they know the camera’s there. It means it’s less likely that they’re going to act. So, it’s one of the things we’re looking at right now —
HEATLEY: Or they know which spots aren’t covered by CCTV and will potentially take a child there.
CLARE: That’s why they have to be in the right places. If deterrence is going to work, how you set them up is just as critical as whether you’ve got them there at all.
HEATLEY: Minister, there’s been a conversation this week about whether men should be working in child care centres at all. Do you have a view of that?
CLARE: I was asked this question yesterday and I said, have a look at the Four Corners exposé, which revealed some pretty horrendous examples of physical abuse and neglect in our child care centres. And those examples weren’t men, they were women. This is not just about men or women. Whoever works in our child care centres, we’ve got to make sure that the safety of our system and the quality of our system is up to scratch. We’ve had a Royal Commission, I’ve commissioned a child care safety review, all of the recommendations that come out of that sort of work don’t talk about this. We know what we need to do. They recommend things like CCTV, like improving the Working with Children Check, like a national register of the people who work in our child care centres. They’re the sort of things we need to do. We’ve just got to crack on and do it.
HEATLEY: Yeah, and there’s already staff shortages. And men can also be excellent role models in education settings, which is important for young children. But ratios are a problem, aren’t they? And there’s just too many kids per educators. And this may potentially allow educators to be on their own with children for long periods of time.
CLARE: A little bit of good news when it comes to the number of people working in the sector, there are more now than there were three years ago. Part of that is because of the pay rise that’s rolling out now, the 15 per cent pay rise. A couple of years ago, people were leaving the sector in droves because they could get more money working at Bunnings or Woolies. That’s changing. Goodstart, who you mentioned, who are rolling out the CCTV cameras, they’re also seeing a massive uptick in job applications. I think something like 20 or 30 per cent. And across the board, we’re seeing a drop in vacancies of more than 20 per cent. So, more people wanting to work in the sector.
Another thing that we need to look at here, mate, is the training that people get, both at TAFE and at university and on the job, to make sure that the fantastic people who work in this sector. And I’ve got to tell you, as angry as the parents are who are affected by this, and I know how you know the white hot anger that mums and dads are feeling in Victoria, because one of them is my friend and she’s made it bloody clear to me just how angry and confused she is with what’s happening at the moment. I’m angry too. But the other group of Australians who are furious at the moment are the fantastic people who work in these centres, whose reputations have been affected by what’s happening right now. I take my hat off to them. I know every mum and dad who have children in our centres take their hat off to them as well. The work they do is incredibly important, and we need more of them. We’ve got to make sure that the training that we provide them provides them with the supports they need, not just to do the job and to keep our kids safe, but to identify people at the centre who may be up to no good.
HEATLEY: Just finally, Minister, Victoria has appointed former Labor Premier Jay Weatherill to lead the state’s child care inquiry, despite facing calls to resign after overseeing a child protection system in disarray in South Australia following a damning royal commission. Is he the right person, do you think? Do you have any view on that?
CLARE: Look, I’m not interested in who does the work. I’m interested in the work that they do, in the recommendations that come out of this rapid review on the 15th of August. People are interested in action. I strongly support the work that the Victorian Government is doing in rolling out reform as quick as possible. The New South Wales Government is doing that as well. I think most Australians want to make sure that the politicians here, whether it’s state or federal, are working together and that we’re acting as quick as we possibly can. I want to see action. I want to see what comes out of that review.
HEATLEY: Jason Clare thanks for making time for us today. Really appreciate it. It’s an important issue and we look forward to hearing that progress through Parliament in a few weeks time. Thanks again.
CLARE: No worries, mate.